Dr Cook (Naomily Phenomenon) interviewd Lily Loveless recently and here is a sneak preview of the full interview that will be featured in the book.
Dr. Ann-Marie Cook: You’re on record as being quite a film buff. What do you love about movies?
Lily Loveless: Probably the escapism and that it’s a completely different sort of world where you’re not in your own world anymore. When I watch a film I’m just in there and nothing’s going on around me, it’s only the film. I think it’s just the escapism and you can create whatever world you want in a film. I can’t really explain it, it just makes me happy.
DC: Was there ever a time when you didn’t imagine having a career somehow related to film or television?
LL: No, it was always going to be that. I wanted to be a director. I still do but so many actors go into directing and it’s just like, oh because they’re an actor they think they can direct. I’d love to do it, whether I would or have the guts to, I don’t know.
DC: How did you get involved with the classes at Mountview Academy of Theatre Arts?
LL: I really wanted to get into [acting] and I thought that going to drama classes is the best way to get into it. I didn’t have a clue how to get into it, but I loved it, I loved my teacher and it was a laugh. Some days we’d really learn stuff but most of the time it wasn’t like a serious, ‘I’m an actor,’ sort of place.
DC: Did it help at all to shape your technique as an actor?
LL: It didn’t really; nothing did. I mean I’ve always done drama out of school but none of the classes I did were specifically training. They were just kids’ sort of drama classes. I don’t really have any technique, and if I do, they came from my drama A Level, which I didn’t really enjoy. It was just loads of written work about plays I didn’t care about. Maybe if we were studying plays I really loved, I would have done better and enjoyed it more. But I had to study plays I didn’t care about and then we had to write plays ourselves and perform them and I didn’t enjoy it at all.
DC: What did you see as the advantage of going straight into work as opposed to going to university or drama school?
LL: Well, I didn’t really think about that because I never wanted to go to uni and I’m still thinking about drama school. But I don’t know, and I think if you’re not sure you shouldn’t go because it’s such a huge commitment. I don’t think you can teach people how to act. I think you can learn a lot of techniques but I don’t really want to go and learn techniques for three years when I can pick them up on the job. I didn’t really make a conscious decision to go straight into working because it doesn’t work like that. If you get a job, you’re lucky, and I just took it and I just carried on from there.
DC: What was the short film you did before Skins?
LL: That was when I was at another little drama club just down the road from my house. The drama teacher basically said, "Do you want to have a little part in this short film?" and I was like "Yeah, alright!" And that was sort of the first time I’d been in front of a camera. But it wasn’t a major thing, it was just a sort of low budget, little arty film. I was only like 14 when I did it, so it was just a sort of fun thing that I did one weekend. I had like one line and I was just one of the girls who fancied this boy, so that was about it.
DC: What was the biggest challenge you faced in getting started as an actor?LL: Well, with the Skins role, I auditioned for an agency and they took me on and they put me up for the Skins audition. I went in there thinking "I’m not going to get this, but I’ll try." I got it and then it dawned on me that I actually had to do acting in front of other people and that people are going to watch it. I think the hardest thing was acting in front of people that you don’t know. It’s really awkward and embarrassing at first because it’s not a very natural thing to do. I felt like everyone else had done it before.
I mean, they hadn’t, but to me it felt like everyone had done it before and everyone else was friends and I didn’t know what I was doing. But I just had to grin and bear it, really. I didn’t really enjoy it that first month because it was so scary and I didn’t have time to think about how lucky I was because I was just terrified. They cut all my hair off and bleached it, and then they said "stand in front of that camera and do acting," and I was like, "Oh my God!" It was really lonely at first. That was hard because I didn’t know anyone, I was just on my own in Bristol doing this weird thing and it was just really odd and surreal.
DC: What attracted you to Naomi’s character?
LL: I really liked her. I felt like a lot of the other characters were characters I’d just seen before but Naomi was a real character; she had her traits and she had her flaws, she was a character. We only got the first script and it changed so much before we actually filmed it, we actually filmed a completely different story to the one I read in the audition.
DC: Based on what you knew of the character at that time, what did you want to bring out in the audition?
LL: I saw a very clear picture of what I thought she should be like. I thought she should be short, which I’m not, have a massive rucksack, which she didn’t, wear glasses and be just sort of [mimes an aggressive, sour look]. I tried to play it like that. I used to be really short and I suddenly had a growth spurt in about a year. And I’ve been told before that I have a short person syndrome where I sort of have that fieriness of a short person.
So I just tried to play that up and make her one of those people that—you don’t see people like her anymore, people who actually believe they need to have a good education and its really important. People at her age, you don’t really see that. And I thought, ‘that’s not me, they’re going to find someone who’s—there’s got to be someone who’s more like her than me.’ I didn’t think she was me at all, but they did, which was lucky.
DC: What did you see as the essence of Naomi’s personality?
LL: That she’s very tough — I say "tough" but it’s a bit of a crap word. She’s very hard, she’s one of those people that always has a frown on her face and would sort of scare a group of boys with just a look. I think she also kind of thinks she’s above everyone else without thinking it at the same time. She looks at Cook and she’s just like, ‘whatever.’ She thinks she’s on another level to the rest of the people around her because she’s intelligent or because she has a higher expectation of life than the rest of the characters.
DC: She’s got a massive case of intellectual snobbery, then?
LL: Yes, definitely, which is so not me but I quite like that about her. It’s very fun to play.
DC: Did you figure out everything about Naomi from the beginning or were you continually discovering things as you went along in the role?
LL: I think the most important thing is that she’s not a character in a box, like you can’t say she’s this type of person, she wouldn’t do this and she wouldn’t do that. To me, she’s a very real person who might be politically minded but she doesn’t think twice about shagging someone. She doesn’t give a shit about what people think. She’s not in a box and she’s not a political lesbian—she’s that type of person, but she’s lots of other things too.
I think it would surprise people because she wouldn’t necessarily say no to eating a hamburger whereas most people would think, "But you’re that type of person, you have to do that." I think that’s the most important thing about her. If we’re reading a script and someone says, "Oh, she wouldn’t do that," I’d say "Why not? Yes, she would do that, she’d definitely do that!" It’s very easy to look at a character in a box, you put people in boxes, that’s just what we do and I think it’s very important that she’s not in a box and that she’s a real person who would do things that wouldn’t necessary be what you’d think she’d do. I’ve always thought that from the beginning
DC: Does it take you a while to come down emotionally after doing things like the rooftop scene in Emily’s episode?
LL: Yeah! We did that scene for about six hours — the scene took a lot longer than anyone would imagine. You just get really depressed because crying has that effect on you anyway, so if you have a crying scene in the morning you’ll feel like shit for the rest of the day. It’s quite confusing because you feel shit, but you’re not really sure why because nothing bad happened. So after that scene, me and Kat just got in the car and it was home time and it was like, "Oh god, this is so depressing!" We were in such horrible moods and its so wearing. It really takes so much out of you doing a scene like that; like emotionally and physically you just feel exhausted and you have to go to sleep.
DC: So even though you as Lily aren’t crying, you have to get yourself to that level of concentration and emotion for Naomi.
LL: Yeah, you have to feel it. Like when I’m acting with Kat, she’s Emily and I’m Naomi, in the storyline her girlfriend’s finding out that she’s cheated on her. That’s the most horrible thing that can happen to a relationship, so I felt that pain that Naomi was feeling, that Emily was feeling, and I was so sorry that Naomi had done that to her because I’m standing there saying it. So I felt all this guilt and all this sadness even though it wasn’t real. But I think that’s how I manage to perform like that.
DC: Since you had to completely inhabit Naomi and feel everything she feels, did you develop a running backstory of what happened between her and Emily beyond the things that were actually shown in the episodes?
LL: Yeah.
DC: Did you ever think about what Naomi and Emily’s first kiss was like?
LL: I did, and I think it wasn’t something very romantic. It was literally just a bit of a [mimes hesitant peck with an expression of shock] — very confused fourteen year old’s first kiss at a party in the garden. Not very romantic, just a bit of a — something that suddenly makes you think, ‘My first kiss and it was with a girl. That’s not meant to happen, is it?.’ I mean, you’re fourteen, that’s what you’re going to think. But I don’t think it was a romantic thing to look back on and reminisce about afterward.
DC: Did you see Emily as Naomi’s first full, sexual experience?
LL: I think Naomi had fooled around because in the scene with Cook, where they’re about to do it, she wouldn’t have been able to do that if that was her first. She felt very comfortable in fooling around with Cook, and I think she’d done that before. I’m not sure if she was a virgin before or not; I’d like to think she was a virgin but had sort of done everything but [sex] with a few boys.
DC: I think Naomily fans like that idea too.
LL: Well, I think that’s true. She liked having fun but she also had morals, not to say, "I’m not going to have sex till I’ve got married," but sort of like "I don’t really want to do it that much, so I’m not, so get out."
DC: What did you think happened between Naomi and Emily over the summer that fell between series 3 and series 4?LL: I think they went off and they had a really fun summer going to fun fairs, and just staying in bed a week at a time and just sort of being their age.
DC: What about the affair with Sophia?
LL: I think Naomi didn’t want to upset Emily because Emily’s very easy to upset, which I think Naomi also finds quite annoying because Naomi’s not like that at all. So she had to hide the fact that she was going to all these unis and that really pissed her off — the fact that she should just be allowed to tell her, and she should just be allowed to do what she wants. I don’t think she did it in spite, I don’t know.
Things just happen and you don’t think about them, and I don’t think she was thinking. It happened and she didn’t like feeling like she couldn’t do something, like she wasn’t allowed to do something. She wasn’t allowed to go look at unis because it would upset Emily, she wasn’t allowed to talk to another girl or sleep with another girl. Well, actually she can do what she wants because she’s her own person and she’s the only person she’s ever relied on. So then immediately afterwards, she would just feel full-blown, absolute guilt. I think guilt for something like that is probably a lot worse feeling than having someone doing it to you because you’ve broken your own heart and you’ve got the responsibility for it, which has got to be worse than someone hurting you because you’ve got nothing to feel bad about.
DC: Did you see it as a one-night stand where Sophia was more into it than Naomi was?
LL: Yes. Definitely, just a one-time thing.
DC: What do you think really happened between Naomi and Emily in the tent they shared with JJ in Effy’s episode from series 3?
LL: I don’t know, I don’t think it was very important. It was just the writers having a bit of a joke. To me, it was just something to make the audience laugh in such an intense episode.
DC: Did you ever subscribe to the idea that Emily was a stalker who wore Naomi down against her will?
LL: No, we joke about that but she’s not really because I don’t think she’d persist. Naomi is saying no, but she’s saying no [aside] yes; no, no, no [aside] yes, which makes Emily carry on, and Naomi knows that and she’s doing it in spite of herself.
DC: Do you think Naomi kept turning up to events with the gang because she knew Emily would be there?
LL: Yes, because she’s not really that interested in making friends, but she is interested in Emily. Like she is, but she’s not at the same time.
DC: For someone who’s not interested in friendship, Naomi behaves like a very good friend when she does things like covering for Panda by telling Panda’s mother that Thomas [Panda’s boyfriend] is actually her boyfriend.
LL: Naomi has this tough, scrappy exterior but she’s a lovely person — she is really lovely. I think she’s got a very good heart and that she’ll do anything for people she loves. So I think that’s just her; she’s a lovely person, she’s just misunderstood!
DC: Was there a point during the broadcast of series 3 when you realised how massive the storyline had become with fans?
LL: No, because I never really knew anything about it. I don’t go on the internet and look at things and it’s not big enough to be in the papers and have articles written about it. So for me, it was a totally other world because watching it as an insider as opposed to an outside audience member, you don’t really know what the reception is; you can’t tell. So I didn’t have a clue, I still don’t really.
DC: You really don’t know how big Naomily has become for fans all over the world?
LL: Not really, no! I don’t think it is big, I mean big for me would be in the papers every day, people writing about it. I mean, I know it’s got fans, but I can’t really tell what spectrum it’s on. Because I’m in it, it’s so hard to see it from an outsider’s point of view.
DC: So going into series 4, you didn’t feel pressure because of the fan response?
LL: I did because people had spoken to me and I’d met a lot of fans and everything that they’d said was sort of like "Oh, you helped me come out" or "you did this, or you did that." So in that sense it wasn’t quantity. The things people were saying were very important things. They weren’t just "Oh yeah, you kissed that girl, didn’t you?" So I did feel like I need to do them justice. You can’t always aim to please, you have to just get on with it. But yeah, I did feel a bit of pressure. I didn’t want to let anyone down and also because I knew what Naomi had done and I was like "Oh God, everyone is going to hate me!"
DC: You’ve talked in other interviews about fans who’ve told you that Naomily helped them come out, have there been other sorts of stories about the ways people have been personally affected by the storyline?
LL: I had a girl who I met [when] I went to Cardiff to do a PA with Luke [Pasqualino]. She said basically "My boyfriend used to hit me and I started watching Naomi and you made me believe that I’m a strong enough person to get up and leave him." That’s an amazing thing to hear from another human being, and it was really different because I’d never heard anything like that. I’d heard things about coming out, which — it makes me so happy to hear that. But then in hearing that from her, it was like, wow, that was a serious problem that I somehow helped without even knowing — there's not a much better feeling than that.
DC: I can imagine! Do you remember what you said?
LL: She needs to not see him anymore, I told her! I said give me his number and I’ll go beat him up for you and she said, "No, no!" So I said, "Alright, I won’t!"
DC: Any other feedback?
LL: People that have said I made them want to get into acting, people that give me compliments and say I think you’re good.
DC: Jack Thorne told me that he usually hates it when actors improvise lines but he loved the way you and Kat kind of did your own thing at the end of the "oilz" scene.
LL: Me and Kat would give each other absolutely hysterics. We’re like two little girls at school being naughty; we’re just in hysterics ninety percent of the time. I think she’s hilarious, she’s so funny, and we were just lying on the floor doing this scene and she kept saying it and I just kept laughing. By that point we were comfortable enough with what we were doing. Sometimes directors don’t say cut, they just let it carry on and you know that they’re doing that because you’ve seen it done before, so we just carried on. It wasn’t really improvisation, we just carried on lying there being stupid. At one point I caught Simon [Massey, the director] out of the corner of my eye sitting behind the screen pissing himself. Everyone in the room was trying not to laugh, everyone was just watching us being idiots.
DC: In an interview with the fansite, Rophydoes, Jack described you as the Robert DeNiro to his Paul Schrader. Do you feel a particular creative connection with him? LL: [Laughs] I like that! I’d like to! I mean we email each other, not a lot, but we email. When we meet we don’t sort of talk, we say hello, but then we go and he emails me, which is nice. I feel very flattered because he is a really good writer, and yet he wants to have my input. He wants to hear whether I like something that he’s written or not and he wants to ask if I’d like to be involved in something else and have my feedback. And that’s sort of like, "but why do you want my feedback, I’m a no one and you’re an amazing writer?" So in that way, it’s really flattering that he feels that way about me.
DC: Has it been good to feel like you’re striking out in a new direction with The Fades, playing a character who’s quite different from Naomi?
LL: Yeah, it’s been really nice.
DC: Do you know whether the series has been picked up yet?
LL: No, but the actors are the last to know. I watched a screening of it and it was really good.
DC: I’m guessing you’re not allowed to talk about it yet.
LL: No, sorry.
DC: We’ll just have to keep our fingers crossed that it gets commissioned so that we can see it! Of course the question on everyone’s mind is whether you will be back for the Skins film.
LL: I don’t really know, I don’t think anyone knows what’s happening with [the film].
DC: What else is on the horizon for you?
LL: Who knows? I’m seeing what comes up!
